This thread is for discussion, questions and comments abou tthe upcoming release of v1.21 and the inclusion of the next phase of deployment, brigades on the map. We will compile questions from over the weekend and make a follow-up report on Monday.

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Dana V. Baldwin
"Gophur"
Senior Producer
Battleground Europe - WWIIOL

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DOC: We aim to please

An HC Officer in a Brigade operating in a contested town that is reporting overrun may choose to Fallback using the /fallback command


So we're going back to overrun being required for a fallback? Right now, despite what some people think, it is not. It was changed a few patches ago for some reason.

No but we generally like the idea of using it first so we explain it that way. It's not a requirment only so that it doesn't impede a needed /fallback.

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Dana V. Baldwin
"Gophur"
Senior Producer
Battleground Europe - WWIIOL

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DOC: We aim to please

All this sound really hard.

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These might have been answered somewhere so sorry if I repost:


1) A brigade is caught in a pocket of 4 or so towns which are cutoff from the factories. It manages to catpure a town while cutoff, making it still cutoff from the factories but the pocket is now 5 towns, apon moving into the newly captured town will the town have a spawn list?

2) How often are brigades allowed to move in a day?

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Air Patton!
I beat WWII Online, the end boss is pretty hard.

Agreed.

But thats good in a way. The future WW2OL will be comprised of players who understand the real game and all it's strategic subtleties, as well as those who login for a bit of shoot 'em up and don't give 2 hoots about Deployment.

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I AM BILTON.

Gophur, are the amount of Brigades in the game going to be decreased or remain the same as they are right now?

I agree Gophur.

I haven't played in a long time so its doubly confusing for me.

How is all of this going to be represented graphically to the average joe user private in the game?

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It doesn't matter Bushy. It will be like the real War in a sense. The officer corps will make the strategic decisions while the grunts fight.

90% of players won't even care. All they want is quality gameplay at the tactical level.

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I AM BILTON.

Actually the "rules" finally cleared up some of this for me. In the last week I had begun to think it was a step back, now at least I know a bit where or what I am stepping in

Way I see it, we now have two markers, each an HQ that is placed on a city and defines our supply line. Period, nothing more.

The Division HQ location is the origin of back-up supply. Consider it the reserve. Place a mission here and you can drive the Div HQ spawnlist up to the Brigade HQ location. The Brigade HQ location, for all practical purposes, is the town nearest the current action, your base on the front line.

The rest of the gobbledeegook actually makes a lot of sense. If you grab a unit from Division (reserve) and despawn at the Brigade HQ (frontline base) you add to the spawn list immediately at the front. If you despawn a unit taken from Brigade (front) and despawn at the Division (reserve) some flunky will immediately drive it up to the Brig HQ (frontline) for you (consider it a swap out of your tired vet with a fresh recruit).

If you despawn a vehicle or unit at another Brigade or Division's location, you got to wait for UPS to get it back to your own place.

No matter what, it is saying the Brigade OWNS the equipment permanently ... except that if you move towns your are restricted by the spawn lists at Brigade and Division. So you can't give up an operation unit to another Brigade, but you can move from a town's spawn list and if you don't deliver it at one of your new HQ locations, you will lose any overstock to the way , way reserve (garrison).

Still, it SOUNDS complicated. But in effect we now really have less units to play with on the front. You'll have only Brigade's town list and Division's town list. Once you waste all those, you have to move to another town and waste those, but at ANY ONE TIME, you only have two towns worth of equipment to play with as a Brigade. Interesting, it sounds like fights will be much more even and attrition much more important, or attrition will lead to hurried maneuvering to grab more equipment.

I guess that's why it is called maneuver warfare. But, even so, I also wonder if the basic Joe will really care. I have to admit, I'm starting to have it with rules that simply don't add to games. If this is seamless and handled well by the system and plays out naturally, fine. If not, I'm starting to understand why people sometimes prefer to go right back to something like Planetside.

Last week, I played City of Heroes instead, just for a break. Everything is so fragile in WW2OL/BE that sometimes it gets to be a pain, especially if resupply takes forever. It does add to tactics, no doubt, but its a lot to take sometimes. I wonder, sometimes, how anyone could live without MSPs in this game if they decided to reverse that.

Anyway, good explanation I thought, the problem before was I had no idea what the purpose , truly, of Division was. Now I see it as simply the resupply depot, simple as that.

So I understand this correctly:

The brigade HQ's and Division HQ's are at the moment solely there as "doors" or "gateways" into a town's spawnlist right? Since we don't have TOE's (yet).

Does this mean that each town only has it's usual spawn list i.e. for example 400 rifles or x amount of tanks? And it essentially can only be accessed by having a HQ of some sort there. i.e. you cannot post a mission in a town which has no HQ - although theroretically it has a full spawnlist - just you can't access it.

If the above is true, then what advantage does a side have in stacking HQ's? As far as I can see so far very few - because 2 "doors" or "gateways" don't increase the number of equipment. It does allow players from 2 different brigades to post missions together but that's it - for the moment. & yes I realize this will change SIGNIFICANTLY when TOE's come. This is however a necessary precusor....

Is this understanding of the current system correct?

Rdanzer

If division D1 has brigades B1, B2 and B3 which sequentially move to form a line: D1 - B1 - B2 - B3, using adjacency to extend away from D1, can B2 move back to the CP B1 is on leaving B3 in a CP not adjacent to D1, B1 and B2? Can non adjacent brigades ever happen?

Will the division HQ's be able to move around behind the line adjacent to its brigades to tap all rear area towns for supplies? How can CP's that are 2 links behind the brigades be tapped?

If a division has 4 brigades and they surround the division in CP's located N, S, E, and W of the division CP, how is it determined what CP is the "front" line CP? Can a division wind up in front of its brigades?

So Brit brigades cannot move to French held towns? What will happen when the Brits are run off the mainland, leaving the entire front French. The Germans will then have more Brigades on the front, and thus can defend more towns than the Allies, which would be limited to only the French brigades. What's to stop the axis from moving all their brigades in the French sector? The Brits could not follow and support (though obviously that would leave the brit front open for attack). Brigades should be able to move to any friendly town, regardless of country!

I think I understand most of what was listed (oddly enough), but I do not understand how a brigade can be routed (not able to fallback). Is this because the town would be completely cutoff from any other friendly town?

What's the formal definition of "front line town"?

I assume a CP is "front line" if an enemy unit is at the other end of one of its links. What if there's a deliberate gap in the opposing line, though, and the enemy-unit-one-link-away condition isn't met? Is a CP "front line" if an unoccupied CP one link away is enemy-owned? How about enemy-controlled? What about a CP that's one link behind a line of your own Brigades, each located in a CP that they control but that is contested?

Also, you noted in the Production Notes "Brigades" commentary that some sort of exception was needed to permit naval Brigades to move to ports that are at the other end of sea links leading to ports in opposing countries, which are enemy owned by default unless captured. How will that exception work?

I completely disagree for the most part. Even if they can't make decisions, I doubt most people want to play as mindless unknowning little pawns for the sake of a handful of players enjoyment. Otherwise why all the effort for the front page map and news?

But that issue aside, how will those who DO have to know how this works see it? Anything visual planned?

(holy crap I just remebed I might have a beta account lol)

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Looks like brigades can accidentally get left behind and then be unable to move. Can HC command a stranded brigade to disband and then reform at the DivHQ?

Long term it would be nice to see artificial restrictions removed and practical headaches included instead to enforce good behavior. For example, increase the supply ticket delay for brigades the farthur they are away from their HQ. Wouldn't impose an artificial movement restriction but would certain encourge the HQ staff to keep people together.

A supply subtlety will be that resupply tickets are based on the CP, not the brigade, right? Will a CP continue to receive resupply even if there is no current brigade at that CP?

Will brigade moves be announced to the players participating in the brigade's missions or will they have to discover the moves in realtime as they happen?

Thanks. Looking forward to trying it out in-game.

Yorick

not if you were in the military maybe to civilians this is starting to look more and more like a real military.

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VIVA ITALIA! Fighting the Fight Since 2003! 35t/Char 2c/RAMII

Maybe a nitpick, but it might have a relevant marketing impact for a certain stratum of not-yet-customers down the road:

A Mission (game term) is a tactical unit.
A Brigade (game term) is an operational unit. (Not tactical.)

That'll matter later when you make efforts to market the broadened-scope game to ex-board gamers who understand what operational-level warfare is, and would be more likely to be initially attracted to that aspect of the game.

I can see there might be a need for supply line town markers or depots. With only two spawning spots, the brigade and divisional HQ. The divisional HQ will have to move right behind its brigades to insure enough supply for a sustained attack or defense. If you let the divisional HQ seperate from the brigade HQ you cant bring up supply very easy.

While this is a good thing it may produce a visible weakness definition. That is a unit that is far from its HQ will be weaker as far as players being able to bring up defensive or offensive supply. The tendance will be to move the divisional HQ right behind the brigade HQ if not stacked on them. (unless it cant be stacked) While this will provide an immediate strong point if you push back a Brigade and it stacks on the divisional HQ, there will be a tendancy to keep them stacked or move in formation. A brigade and a divisional HQ stacked will produce a spearhead with the two other brigades defending the flanks in a one city radius.

The divisional HQ will also become another brigade in a breakout or pivot move. The Divisional HQ providing support along a flank as the pivot rotates. The Divisional HQ providing the tail flank support in a breakout. While this is not completely unrealistic it does increase the number of spawnable units. (did I read that the Divisional HQ cannot be in a front line town?)